Walid's response to Maseehi

Many times I find my self debating Christian believers who object to my writings, that my position on Israel is offensive to Muslims and Christian Arabs. If there such a thing as "Christian Arab" point of view, "Christian Jew" point of view, and a "Christian American" point of view? I guess so.

It seems whenever Christians disagree on certain political issues they would come up with a new points of views. I wonder what is the "Arab Christian" point of view on issues like pre-tribulation or post tribulation? Is there such a point of view? It amazes me how people use more flesh (their own mind) and prejudices and attach it to Christianity. I am an Arab, and a Palestinian, and I'd rather stick with saying that I am a Christian when speaking on The Bible. I do not like this idea of Arab Christian point of view at all. I'd rather use the best of my ability to say and write exactly what I see and understand as to what God said and regardless to whose point of view I hurt. Truth should be truth, it does not matter if it fits or pleases certain political points of view, I do not seek to be politically correct at all, and on the contrary I seek to be absolutely politically wrong when politics disagrees with scripture. As far as I am concerned when the human point of view does not agree with the Bible it belongs in the trash. And if we take that there is an "Arab Christian" point of view, I would imagine that the majority of what call themselves "Christian Arabs" would hold the point of view on Israel that it should be destroyed. Just look at The Palestinian Charter for yourself and see. Ask Palestinian Christian Arab leaders like Hanan A'ashrawi and George Habash who claim to be Christians and holders of the so called "Palestinian Christian" point of view, as to what is the Christian Arab point of view is, and if you were a Bible believing Christian, you will be amazed at the response you will get from such individuals, and I'll bet that the majority of the Palestinian masses Muslims and Christians alike would agree with there point of view which is purely full of hate and is anti-Semitic which is evident in The Palestinian charter as well as the Palestinian actions Christians and Muslims alike. The issue is not what The Bible says but purely a sickness mixed with The Bible and then dare to call it Christian, especially when Christ was a Jew, the apostles where Jews, their message was first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles, and the heaven that we are all waiting for has the 12 tribes of Israel written on them. My friend, if you do not like Jews or Israel, you will not like the names on the gates of heaven. To say that you are a Bible believing Christian and hold the position of the Palestinian masses on Israel and the Jews would be in defiance to God and His Word. It is as simple as that. The idea of ignoring Bible Prophecy concerning The Jews and Israel since it is offensive to certain groups is forgetting that the cross itself is offense as well? Why not blot it also to serve certain other groups? What these groups argue is that it is not essential for salvation, so we must drop this subject altogether, that we must use wisdom, when in reality they are using human smarts and flesh, I know of some who are active witnesses to Muslims, and all I have to say to them is: It's a shame. Especially when it is these kind of views that are the cause of division between Christians and not what the Word of God says. Division is the works of the Devil and the flesh, not God. It was God himself that spoke in prophecy in Psalm 83: "Fill their faces with shame, That they may seek Your name, O Lord." addressing the Muslim Arabs who tried to destroy the state of Israel as a nation right from it's birth; "Come let us cut them off from being a Nation that the name of Israel be remembered no more" (Psalm 83:4). God was laying down His plan and also telling these masses who oppose the creation of the state of Israel as to why they have lost the wars. One of God's reasons for allowing these people to loose is to show them that He is God and that He desires them to know Him. This is His method whether I like it or not. It is His way of proving His point of view, and I will be very frank with everyone, the hell with any point of view that opposes God's and I say it without any apology, fear, or guilt.

I had a long conversation one time with an "Arab Christian" who said that the issue of Israel will make my Arab Christian brothers stumble by quoting the verses in 1 Cor 10:32: "Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God". What my "Christian Arab" friend did was to forget the verse before it: "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God" which relates to diets and other habits making the issue of Israel in prophecy a problem like eating pork since it might offend my brother. This comparison is pure balony and cannot be accepted. This friend of mine used to attend an "Arab Christian" church in which I was invited by the pastor to share my testimony. When the pastor reviewed my testimony it never reached the pulpit. I started to see this so called "Arab Christian" view becoming more and more popular among Arabic speaking Christians. The last one I got prompted me to address this issue. Here is letter from an Arabic speaking Christian who names himeself "Maseehi" with my response, enjoy the reading.

Dear Walid,

I read your book "Dear Muslim, Let Me Tell You Why I Believed", and to be honest, it's a great book! It really influenced me a lot. You see, about a year ago I renounced Islam and was searching for the truth. In my search I went to Answering Islam and I found your book. To be honest, the things I read in your book regarding the Jews and your general attitude [concerning Jews and Israel] really upset me, they even made me almost dismiss Christianity as a valid way to God for a while.

Walid:
Well you did not dismiss Christianity, did you? God had His hands upon you, and no matter what offended you He would still have got you. It does not matter what I did or wrote, so welcome to the fold, remember that I am in the same boat you are in now, I am hated, laughed at, and mocked by my own family, so we have much in common and the Muslims think that we left Islam because we wanted the comfort of guilt free Christianity, yet we put our lives on the line.

Now let us reason together.

Maseehi:
But then I asked some (Arab) Christian friends about their opinion on the Jews and the modern Israel, and they helped me out. As for me now as a Christian, I disagree with you on many issues. The only reason I'm writing this email is because I want other seekers (as I was about a year ago) to know two sides of how (Arab) Christians view the Jews and modern-day Israel. My aim is not to convince you and I won't try to. Each is entitled to his/her own opinion.

Walid:
You say that you want them to know the side of the Arab Christian's point of view. Why not just represent your own point of view, many Christians who happen to be Arabs, also have my point of view. Take for example Anis Shorrosh, a good friend of mine and a Christian writer who supports the existence of the State of Israel and declared it in many of his books. The opinions you follow originate from the Palestinian masses many of which put a mask and call themselves Christians when in fact they do not even know the basic principles of Christianity. Take George Habash who is a Palestinian terrorist and a first class mobster, and claims to be Christian, would you say that he has the "Arab Christian" point of view? How about Hanan Ashrawi's point of view who also claims to be an Arab Christian and serves in Yasser Arafat's terrorist organization. Would you say she has the "Arab Christian" point of view? Would you follow their way?

Why won't we just discuss our point of views? You also say that you do not want to convince me. However, I want to convince you that your ideas have no basis in history and do not line up with the Word of God "The Bible point of view" as I will show. You seem to say that your mind is made up and you do not want to be confused by my facts, when in the recent past your mind as well as mine were made up that Islam was correct, we both were dead wrong and destined to hell, so why not open your mind a little bit and think with me here.

Walid:
As I lived in Palestine everyone I knew could trace there heritage back to the original country their great grandparents came from. Everyone knew his origins was not from the Canaanites, but ironically, that is the kind of stuff our education included in the Middle East.

Maseehi:
Well, it is true that many genealogies are traced to Arab tribes from the (Persian) Gulf to the (Atlantic) Ocean. But many other genealogies are lost. As you know, Arabs usually keep genealogies that would make them proud! i.e. most of those who trace back to Mohammad still have their family tree to prove it. Thus no Arab would be proud of a genealogy which traces his origin back to the Canaanites, thus it was lost (or modified sometimes).

The thing now is, what happened to the Canaanites? We know that there wasn't any Canaanite holocaust or something. What happened to their descendants? I guess that they (among others who are aboriginal Palestinians) are the modern-day Palestinians.

Walid: I will hit the Canaanite issue above square in the eye, once and forever:

Exodus 33:1-2
1 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Leave this place, you and the people 
you brought up out of Egypt, and go up to the land I promised on oath 
to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, saying, 'I will give it to your descendants.'
2 I will send an angel before you and drive out the Canaanites, Amorites, 
Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites.

Clearly, no Canaanaites or Jebusites will remain. Now you can sit here and argue with me, but are you going to argue with God? I would strongly suggest you don't.

Then we go to Numbers 21:2-3

2 Then Israel made this vow to the LORD: "If you will deliver these 
people into our hands, we will totally destroy their cities."
3 "The LORD listened to Israel's plea and gave the Canaanites over 
to them. They completely destroyed them and their towns; so the place 
was named Hormah".

So there you have it, from God's mouth to your ears. Any questions?

Walid:
In an interview between Zola Levit and Mr. Husseni, a right hand man to Yasser Arafat, in a Zola Levit Television program, Mr. Husseni bluntly claims that the Palestinians originated from the Jebusites before Abraham moved to Israel, he clearly changed the historic fact to an American audience who lacks in Eastern History to the fact that today's Palestinians are immigrants from the surrounding nations. I grew up well knowing the history and origins of today's Palestinians as being from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Christian from Greece, Muslim Sherkas from Russia, Muslims from Bosnia, and the Jordanians next door. The well known civil and tribal wars between the Yemmenite (from Yemen) and Kessites (from Banu Kais of Saudi Arabia) was ignored by Mr. Husseni which is a well known amongst the Palestinians.

Maseehi:
As I said, many immigrated to Palestine, but many were natives there. I see nothing to disprove that the Palestinians couldn't have been Jebusites. Like can you prove that I am *not* originally Turkish if you don't have my genealogy? You can neither prove nor disprove it.

Walid:
Besides my biblical references above which addresses this issue, you might still see nothing to prove that the Palestinians of today are not from the Jebusites? Did you do any research on the origin of the Palestinians? The Bible and History as well addresses these peoples, whether they are Jebusites, Cannanites, or Philisteens, as being there no more, finished, and over with, killed, disbursed, and mixed with others to the point that they do not exist any longer. It is a historic and a biblical fact.

Maseehi:
Most of the groups you mentioned such as the Moroccans, Greek, Circassians (Sherkas), and Bosnians all together make up a small minority of the Palestinians. You will find that most Palestinians don't have their genealogies and don't really know who/where they originated from. Some may say that they are from the tribe of Quraysh (Mohammad's tribe), and that they migrated like a thousand years ago, but if they can't prove it then we have no solid evidence.

Walid:
Now, I should address 2 "guesses" you made above with historical evidence. Your first guess that these different peoples make up only a small minority. Your second guess is that we cannot find out the origin of today's Palestinians. Let me give you some background to Palestine and the Palestinians:

First of all let me say that when people make claims that the majority of today's Palestinians originate from 1000 years ago Arabs are depending on an absolute lie fabricated by Arab propaganda. History in Palestine did not begin and end with the brief Arab conquest in the seventh century which was to rule briefly Christians and Jews who occupied the area already. In fact these invasions were by non-Arab hired mercenaries who remained on the land as soldiers enticed by the promises of booty. These different races were an interesting blend and mix of nations and peoples; "Balkans, Greeks, Syrians, Latins, Egyptians, Turks, Armenians, Italians, Persians, Kurds, Germans, Afghans, Circassians, Bosnians, Sudaneese, Samaritans, Algerians, Motawila, Tartars, Hungarians, Scots, Navarese, Bretons, English, Franks, Ruthenians, Bohemians, Bulgarians, Georgians, Syrians, Persian Nestorians, Indians, Copts, Maronites, and many other" (DeHass, History p. 258. John of Wuzburg list from Reinhold Rohricht edition, pp. 41, 69)

Besides small spots of population by the above groups, Palestine was mostly empty. One historian after the other agrees to a major fact which Bible already predicted long ago that the land of Israel would be a desolation:

Dio Cassius describing Israel when it was destroyed by the Romans: "Of their forts the 50 strongets were razed to the ground, 985 of their best known villages were destroyed..... Thus the whole of Judea became desert, as indeed had been foretold to the Jews before the war. For the Tomb of Solomon, whom these folks celebrate in their sacred rights, fell into it's own accord into fragments, and wolves and hyenas, many in number roamed howling through their cities" (History of the Romans, lxix, 12-14 cited by DeHass, History, pp 55-56).

De Hass: "The real source of the interest in the problem was the condition of Palestine; empty, silent, waste, ruin between 1840 and 1880" (De Haas, History, p. 407).

Carl Herman Voss: "In the twelve and a half centuries between the Arab conquest in the seventh centuries and the beginning of the Jewish return in the 1880's, Palestine was laid waste. It's ancient canal and irrigation system were destroyed and the wondrous fertility of which the Bible spoke vanished into desert and desolation... Under the Ottoman Empire of the Turks, the policy of disfoilation continued; the hillsides were denuded of trees and the valleys robbed of their topsoil" (The Palestine Problem Today, Israel and It's Neighbors, Boston, 1953, p. 13).

There were no Cannanites or Jebusites, only parasites.

Ernst Frankenstine: "It was in 1878, Harsh conditions forced many groups to immigrate into Palestine; Circassian, Algerians, Egyptians, Druses, Turks, Kurds, Bosnians, and others. 141,000 settled Muslims living in all of Palestine (all areas) in 1882, at least 25% of those 141,000 were new comers who arrived after 1831 from the Egyptian conquest." (Ernst Frankenstine, Justice for my people, London, Nicholson and Watson, 1943 p. 127).

Mark Twain: "Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes.... desolate and unlovely... it is a dreamland" (Mark Twain, The Innocents Abroad, pp. 349)

Jerusalem Commerce reports: "1840, Jerusalem's population of 15,000 of whom 8,000 Jews, 4,500 Muslims, and the rest Christians" (No. 238, report of Commerce of Jerusalem during the year 1863, F.O. 195/808, May 1864). Please note, that the population of Jerusalem was always majority Jews.

Most Palestine was desolate for 2000 years as The Bible predicted. In my city I remember everyone able to give his/her origin, a family with the last name Bolous knows that he is originally from Greece, Khresto (Greek), Roza (Latino), Mughrabi (Maghreb), Bannurah (Egyptian), Tio (Latino), Qumsieh (Greek), Hourani (Syria), Hilal (Turkey), Batarseh (Greek), Shoebat (Jordan). This example is typical of all the Palestinian Arabs. All these people came no less than 150 years ago and even the Arab immigrant families like Al-Nashasheebi, Al-Khalidi, and Al-Husseini settled in Palestine in the same period and were given the status of "Efendi" which made them an upper class taking over the lands while the rest of the lower class "Falaheen" were exploited, so I do not understand were you get your statement that Palestinians do not know there origin. The city I lived in was desolate until my great grand father with 6 other families settled in our village which is now inhabited by 40,000 people. My grand father was a good friend of Haj Al-Ameen Al-Husseni the leader of the Palestinian revolution against Israel and a staunch friend of Hitler who coordinated with Hitler the "final solution" to the Jewish Problem and was with Hitler at the eve of the "Final Solution" November 21, 1941. I have pictures, and letters as well if you would you like to see? What a shame. My grand father owned a big portion the city, he was the Mukhtar (leader) of our clan.

I hope you look at the facts before you believe your own guesses. I do not blame you for this, it is all misconceptions passed down by tradition.

Maseehi:
Now you may ask, what proof do I have that the Palestinians today are largely descendants of the Canaanites and/or the surrounding nations? Well, since we don't have any preserved genealogies we cannot tell. All I can say is what happened to the Canaanites? Did they simply disappear? I think so not.

Walid:
If you still "think so not" then you do not agree with scripture, you do not have to reason with me, but at least I hope you reason with God. You seem to conclude without doing any research concluding that the Cannanites did not disappear and that today's Palestinians are from the Cannanites, why not research and seek as you did when you searched for the Truth, seek and you shall surely find !!!

Maseehi:
Now, and just for the sake of argument, I want to assume that the modern-day Palestinians are all immigrants (just for the sake of argument). And assuming that the Jews were here (Palestine) first. Does that give them the right to kick out all modern-day Palestinians?

Walid:
We need to look at the log in our Arab eye before we look at the spec in our Jewish cousin. Let us see who kicked who out first and not vise versa as you claim. It was the Arab Nazi-like bursts of brutality, and mass extradition of the Jews from all the Arab lands which forced the Jews to immigrate to Israel. In fact it was the Nazi and Arab hate of the Jews that caused Israel to be created my friend. "Of more than 850,000 Jews in Arab lands fewer than 29,000 remained forced to leave to Israel" (American Jewish Yearbook, 1983, George Gruen, editor, New York). It was pure hate fed through schools and Arab media that caused severe persecution in the Arab world, let me quote a prominent Egyptian writer: "People all over the world come to realize that Hitler was right, since Jews are bloodsuckers" (Anis Mansour 1973). Then one could see the manifestation of evil take place all over the Arab world. In Yemen the Jew who lived there for thousands of years fell under the Omar Charter which called for the severe fanatical edicts of the most intolerant Islamic sects. You must have read the "Omar Covenant" in my book. Even Muslims do not know how to respond to it.

In Adan (Eden) the Arab riots and pogroms erupted in 1947 killing Jews, ransacking houses, and robbed every single Jewish store, and burned or destroyed every Jewish synagogue and home in the country. The only Jews who were spared were at an area called "Steamer Point". They were all forced to leave in 1958.

In Iraq all the Jews were forced to leave between 1948 and 1952 and leave everything behind. Jews were publicly hanged in the center of Baghdad with enthusiastic mob as audience.

In Egypt Jamal Abdunnaser stated: "Our sympathy was with the Germans". During the 6 day war the Jews of Egypt were rounded up and thrown into concentration camps, whipped and beaten constantly, deprived from food and forced to chant anti Israeli slogans. Egypt had no place for Jews.

In Morocco, nothing was worse than the slaughter of 120,000 Jews in 1146 in Fez. in 1948 mob violence and hostilities forced the Jews to leave to Israel.

In Algeria, Jews were accused of sorcery, they were slaughtered and plundered continually. The Algerians were inflamed with Nazi influence, Jewish diplomats were kidnapped and killed. The Jewish population in 1948 diminished in a few months, forced to leave to Israel.

In Tunisia, the Jews had the title as detested "Dhimmi", having to pay heavy taxation, and forced to wear separate clothing different than the Moors, they had to wrap yellow banners around their necks, and the women could never wear shoes, daring to change these rules would result in public stoning. Forbidden to carry arms, repair there synagogues, mass extortion, rape, mass murders and extreme Arabization forced 50% of the Jews to flee to Israel. The other 50% left to France.

In Syria, The status of "Dhimmi" gave the Jew no rights at all, only the right not to defend himself. During 1944 - 1945 intensified persecution of the Jews took place forcing the Jews to flee to Israel. The same status was for the Jews in Lebanon and Libya.

If you like solid detail stories and references to prove every case I presented above I will be glad to share upon request.

Now I wonder how come you never mentioned any of this in your statements? Could it be that he have been listening to one side of the story. A good judge must always hear the "other" party. Please keep that in mind.

So, who forced who out ? Where did you get this statement of which you write "kick out all Modern-day Palestinians". I think I can easily guess the answer to my question, from a well known lie and perversion of history past down by the Arabs who were defeated in 1948, and in 1967, it is called "The political influence of tradition". I was there in 1967 living in Jericho, and have seen with my own eyes what happened, all the people who fled away and ran across the Jordan river was out of pure fear imposed by the Arab Media themselves who told the Palestinians to leave because the Jew will slaughter them. It was pure Arab propaganda against Israel which made the Palestinians leave and out of pure fear, and not the Jews as you put it "kicked out modern day Palestinians". I wonder why you never blamed anything on the Arabs themselves?

In the 6 day war there was no civilian Arab attacked by the Israelis, no stores robbed, no homes looted, and no women raped. The Israeli's announced to everyone to put a white flag on there gates and no one would be harmed. That's exactly what we did and the Israelis knocked on our door with the words (Shalom) peace. They were gentle and kind. The fact is it was Arabs who looted stores and houses, I saw that with my very own eyes where women and men would rob their own neighbors who fled out of pure fear planted by the Arabs themselves. Not a single store remained un-looted in Jericho by the Arabs. I still remember to this day the women carrying furniture on their heads like it was water buckets, there was no food left in the stores since it was all stolen. They would force open the garage-like sliding doors, saw off locks, and break down doors to get the loot. We lived on wild grasses and oranges from the groves, until the UN got in and sent food to the masses. From 40 students in my class only 9 remained, so 3/4 of Jericho ran away as requested by the Arab governments and not kicked out as you claim. I have never seen any Jew force anyone to leave. On the contrary it was Jews who pleaded with the Arabs to stay. All the Arab armies fled out of pure fear and in fulfillment of God's word in Psalm 83, notice verse 4 "They have said, "Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation, That the name of Israel may be remembered no more." Which sounds like the Arab outcry to destroy Israel exactly what the Bible foretold thousands of years ago by David naming all the peoples that opposed Israel in the last 50 years.

Also notice the most important verse 16 "Fill their faces with shame, That they may seek Your name, O Lord.". This was fulfilled literally, I myself witnessed The Jordanian Army fleeing from fear, they were taking their uniforms off and running with there underwear from fear. What a shame. It is also a declaration to the enemies of Israel, that the God of the Bible does not hate the Arabs or the Muslims, but is requesting them to repent and turn to him "That they may seek Your name O Lord", and believe in Him. He is like a loving father to his children, that when they go against his will he would have to inflict some pain as to re-direct them His way. I wonder how did David in Psalm 83 know all of this ? How do you explain the fulfillment of these passages in Psalm 83 and many others throughout the Bible? Was God a liar? God forbid !! For how long must we ignore God? How long?

The same God did for the Pharaoh of Egypt, he bid him to let His people go, then started with simple punishments of frogs, hail, and other stuff, he loved the Egyptians who many of them went along with Moses.

Now, if you were living at the time of Moses would you not tell the Egyptians that Moses staff ate the Pharaoh's snakes because the Egyptian worshipped Pharaoh, because it would be an insult to him to say that Pharaoh lost. Not telling the truth to this lost Egyptian would be a crime. It is a crime to hide the truth of God when we know it. It is a crime to hide certain biblical truths from Muslims, and I warn you, look at scriptures.

I guess you are going to tell me that Israel extradited some individuals to Jordan and Lebanon. First, please study what these individuals did and were intending to do to the Jews in Israel, most of which were terrorists who committed crimes against Israel in the name of independence from Israel. You also never mention what the Arabs themselves did to the Palestinians, in fact there are more Arabs killing Palestinians and kicking them out than in all the Palestinian-Israeli conflicts. You maybe forgot to mention the Jordanian-Palestinian Black September civil war, were Jordanians kicked out Palestinians. How about the Lebanese Civil war, who killed civilians there? I know your response will have Ariel Sharon's air raids in your next letter, I could hear it coming, but remember, it was the PLO's choice to place their military centers among civilian populations, and it was the Filangest groups who attacked Sabra and Shatella killing civilian Palestinians, yet putting all the blame of the Jews. Please remember, I am not saying that Israel was perfect, that they never shot a Palestinian who was doing graffiti on the walls, for they have indeed made many wrongs, but nothing when you compare what the Arabs did to the Palestinians. My own sister and her family were thrown out of Libya, and their business taken away by Qadafi the mad man just because they were Palestinian. Israel now is like many secular states, has it's faults, yet God promised to give them a new heart when Messiah comes and He will come.

Maseehi:
Consider this scenario. It is a well-known undebated fact that the Native Americans (Red Indians) were in the US loooong before the white man, the black man, or any other race for that mater. Does that give them the right to expel all non-Native Americans and reclaim their land? After all, they were in America first, and the land most definitely *did* belong to them.

Walid:
Let me add to my previous statements: The Arabs blame Israel for creating the Refugee problem while it was the Arabs who insisted to keep the camps in Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon, to use the Palestinians for political exploitation. In 1982: 65,425 Palestinian refugees put in camps in Syria, 123,442 in Lebanon, 192,392 in Jordan, this was reported by UNRWA, while the Arabic propaganda lied and inflated the number to 4,000,000, and ALL who fled on their own will and without any force. Now, please compare with 850,000 Jews actually expelled from the Arab lands, forced to leave to Israel.

So please do look at the log in our Arabic brothers eyes before you look at the speck in our Jewish cousins, you need to remember the HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of Jewish refugees terrorized and expelled from Arab lands in 1948 and after, forced to go to Palestine and then were blamed again and again for having to live there.

Maseehi:
The Palestinians are Christian and Muslims who worship One God - The God of Israel. God spared the idolatrous Amorites and delayed the promise for them because their sin wasn't yet up to "its full measure", wouldn't he have delayed his promise for the Monotheistic Palestinians who definitely worship God more truthfully than the Pagan idolatrous Amorites?

Walid:
The Bible sees no difference in the Islamic worship of God than even the ancient Babylonians, they too believed in one God, they tried to reach to that God by there own works (building a tower), God hated that and punished them swiftly. It is not the belief in one God that brings people to God, even the devil believes in one God. You use the word Monotheistic as a reason for God to have patience, well not so with the Babylonians. Also, the God of the Muslims is not the God of Israel, The God of Israel is a Trinity, has a Son, and is a Father, far from Islam's God who is in fact The God of this World The Devil. Are you saying that Monotheism in "The Devil" pleases God? I hope not.

Walid:
Many of my Christian friends advised not to mention Israel in this writing, but I must warn my beloved people, whom I always pray for.

Maseehi:
You should have taken heed to their advice.

Walid:
I'd rather stick with God. I will give you a "Thus saith The Lord" point of view: "Thus saith the Lord, who giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, who divideth the sea when its waves roar; The Lord of hosts is His name: If those ordinances depart from before Me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me forever. Thus saith the Lord, If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord".

That is how important Israel is. Any questions?

Walid:
The Jew has been an object of extermination in one country after the another, and many times they have been on the verge of annihilation. Several attempts in history has ended with absolute failure, as God has promised to preserve them. An unconditional agreement between God and Abraham.

Maseehi:
The Jews were persecuted a lot. One of the most persecuted peoples on earth. But they are not the only ones. Take the Native Americans, the Armenians, the Gypsies, etc... But all of this is irrelevant. Persecution is irrelevant to the Jews and Palestine.

Walid:
Your comparison is a bit off, the Jews were persecuted for 2000 years, and almost completely annihilated, 6,000,000 at one deal the Holocaust alone. It is also significant because this extermination never worked and the devil never succeeded. The Jews also were brought back by God to their land, and were revived as a nation. These examples you are giving do not have this important significance that God promised and made clear in the Bible. It also does not relate to our subject. Apparently you chose to pick and choose from my book without examining the biblical facts. Do not forget, it was not only Europe who persecuted the Jews, but our own people (mine as well) in every Arabic and Islamic country, would you like the facts for that? I can give you volumes on this subject.

Walid:
Islam teaches a form of replacement theology unlike the West has ever known. Some believe that the Church is the Israel the Bible was speaking about. The replacement of all the promises that God gave to Israel is now forwarded to the Church.

To the replacement theology followers, there was no need for Israel anymore.

Maseehi:
"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2:28,29

I myself don't believe in any replacements, but according to Paul a Jew isn't a person who is circumcised, but a true believer of God. Do you - as a Christian - believe that the Jews nowadays are following YHVH truthfully?

If you want to take it from a Christian perspective, only the Messianic Jews could be classified as Jews according to the above verse because only the Messianic Jews believe that Jesus is the Messiah.

From a Jewish perspective, the Modern State of Israel is definitely NOT a biblical one. They are secular, they do not follow the word of YHVH.

Walid:
You say that: "I myself do not believe in any replacements", yet you are unintentionally. Yes you do believe in replacement theology, and it is exactly what you said, let me quote you:

"If you want to take it from a Christian perspective, only the Messianic Jews could be classified as Jews according to the above verse because only the Messianic Jews believe that Jesus is the Messiah."

That is exactly one of the definitions of replacement theology, to say that a Jew is only Christians. The verses that you quote pretain to "Spiritual Jews", yet you confused the issues of God's promisses to Jews (Physical Israel, Abrahamic Covenant), with spiritual Jews (believers in Messiah). Please make a point of this as you study scripture and find out God's promisses to the Jews in the Abrahamic Covenant.

And then you go on and say:

"From a Jewish perspective, the Modern State of Israel is definitely NOT a biblical one."

What do you mean by "Jewish prespective"? Are you following a certain Jewish thought and slapping it as evidence that they are correct and The Bible is not? I hope I misunderstood. Israel in The Bible is first brought back in unbelief, and then their redemption comes. We both agree that Israel does not follow the Messiah, I have already written in my book. In Ezekiel 39:23-24 the God of the Bible sums up the story of Israel: "The Gentiles shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity; because they were unfaithful to Me, therefore I hid My face from them. I gave them into the hand of their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I have dealt with them, and hidden My face from them."

Now, can it be more clear? There need to be little or no interpretation for these verses, they speak for themselves. Israel was unfaithful to God, for that they have been paying for 2000 years, they got what they deserved. Israel was their land which God made a covenant with, and a deal is a deal, especially with God. It does not get annulled no matter how long ago it was made. They came back, and God is going to redeem and clean their hearts.

Walid:
It must be known that God declared the name for that land, ...

Maseehi:
The name I see in Ge 11:31, 12:5, 13:12 and other verses is "the land of Canaan".

Walid:
He gave them The Land of Canaan to become The Land of Israel. You quote this name only, and I ask you to send me the quotes where He calls it The Land of Israel.

Also keep in mind that there is not a single reference in The Bible that addresses Israel as Palestine. Palestine does not exsist in The Bible. God wants the name He chose, and that He will do and did, despite the effort of making a State of Palestine. In fact God knows that we will try to divide Israel into two separate states. He even addresses the issue: "I will also gather all nations, and bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat; and I will enter into judgment with them there on account of My people, My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations; they have also divided up My land." (Joel 3:1-2). God will cause a final world war just for that reason. Yet you hear so little about these verses I mentioned in my book, and I wonder why we have ignored God's words which were written from time immomorial and I ask: For how long?